Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Chapter 4 -- Discussion Notes



The 4th Word from the cross -- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"



1. Throughout the book Neuhaus has frequently referrred to Jesus as a "derelict." How do you feel about his use of that very harsh term? ("...... the English word 'dereliction' catches the desperation of the scene.")

2. The author defines the term in the opening sentence of the chapter: "......the derelict, the abandoned one." It brings to the fore the urgent question of whether Jesus was truly abandoned on the cross. Was he? If yes, why? If no, why did he cry out ("The Greek word used suggests that he screamed with a loud cry, .....Why!!!!" --p. 103)?

3. "'Dereliction' is an apt word for the times we call modern" (p. 104). From that assertion the author words a scathing assessment of the current world. What is he referring to when he says, "No matter how many fairy tales we tell, when we know that they are fairy tales, they cannot re-enchant the world." (p. 104)?

4. "Dover Beach" (easily found on the Internet) is a famous poem which speaks of a "long, withdrawing roar." What is it that withdrew and is gone ....... and has left us with "fragmentation, alienation, forsakenness, abandonment"? (p. 105). Spend some time thinking about this. (In what sense is this gloom the result of our being forsaken by God? In what sense is it the result of our forsaking God?).

5. WWI destroyed a sense of optimism that many prior to 1914 possessed, a belief in "the inevitability of progress." (p. 107). But perhaps the greatest loss was of a place to turn in our disillunionment. Neuhaus says with bewilderment (while considering the fact that the "presumably enlightened century" -- the 20th -- loosed more rivers of blood and piled up more corpses than any century in history), "Yet our nights are not torn by the scream, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Why is this so? What did "the enlightened century" do with God? Or what did we learn in our enlightenment about God? (That he doesn't exist? That he is impotent?)?

6. What does the following statement mean? -- "Our world is filled with pitiable Last Men and Last Women, as well as secular nihilists." (p. 108). Why does life have no definable meaning to them? Why then do they contnue to insist that their "lives have meaning"?

7. The worst thing that could possibly happen has already happened -- On a certain Friday afternoon God was killed. Given that, to what does the following statement refer? -- "To be sure, at the heart of darkness there is also hope, because the worst word is not the last word."

8. Neuhaus sees hope in the hoplessness of the cross, light in the utter darkness. Perhaps it's not overstating the case to say that there was a touch of optimism in the horrible cry from the cross. "One who cries out, 'My God, My God' -- although he be crying to a God experienced as absent -- has not lost hope." How might the cry of a derelict who had lost hope differ from Jesus's cry?

9. What are the "American specialties of long standing" mentioned on p. 117? What role (if any) does the cross play in the practice of these American specialties?

10. What in the world has happened to a culture that believes it to be a "mark of sophistication" to reduce "wonder to banality"? (p. 125), to treat "reverence as vulgar; irreverence (calling a crucifix submersed in a bottle of urine art) as chic" (p. 125)?

11. How does "radical subjectivism" (p. 126) judge the motives/actions of one who jumps in a river to save a drowning child and another who watches from the bank as the child drowns?

12. What does the following statement mean? "It is precisely in the darkness of abandonment that God's power shines through our human weakness." (p. 136).

3 comments:

Paula said...

Pronunciation: \ˈder-ə-ˌlikt, ˈde-rə-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin derelictus, past participle of derelinquere to abandon, from de- + relinquere to leave — more at relinquish
Date: 1649
1: abandoned especially by the owner or occupant; also : run-down
2: lacking a sense of duty : negligent

To describe Him as abandoned, forsaken,roadkill truly threw me back. I had a difficult time with this chapter. Did God turn his back on him? Did he have to endure that feeling of abandonment so we can never say that He has no idea how we feel? I mentioned in book club tonight that I work with kids who are fighting cancer 5 days of my week. I know that I have no idea how they feel. I have never been in their shoes. He knows. He knows how they feel. In those times of crisis when I am at the end of my rope...I just need to take a moment and remember that he knows and that he endured through the darkness. I posted the definition because I had a idea in my head what I thought it meant but I had to verify with Websters. "Abandoned especially by the owner."

Anonymous said...

11/26/07 Book Club discussion notes from Chapter 4
1. What does derelict mean?
a. Abandonment
b. Walking away from their duty
2. Refers here to Christ being left alone on the cross
3. He didn’t really know from a human perspective how final it would be.
4. He was becoming weaker from the process of dying
5. How much more could he take?
6. He had human emotion during this moment of weakness
7. He refers repeatedly to God here not as Father as He previously did during His time on earth.
8. Completely human Jesus
9. He could have called the angels.
10. Why didn’t Satan appear at the cross? Did he think he had already won?
11. Fairy tales are not always enchanting. They are meant to teach lessons. They do have some “scary” parts to them.
12. We try to make the cross more appealing than the reality of it.
13. Society has given up on “faith”; they are only concerned with the present
14. Are we derelicts?
15. Why do we not want to feel abandoned? Is there something about sorrow that we must avoid?
16. The world is immune to the drama of the cross!!
17. God became human to be killed on a Friday afternoon. Was the idea of God killed that afternoon? Much of the time the world acts as though even the idea of a God does not exist.
18. Where was the Holy Spirit that afternoon?
19. There was darkness.
20. Is America the only country with all the “feel good” religions?
a. Why is it so prevalent here?
b. Is it because of our wealth and power?

Helga-Yvette said...

Okay, so I am popping in here for a short comment given that I am buried with preparations for Finals, but only to say that I am a bit puzzled... perhaps my awakened interest in the Holy Trinity? But if we ponder this for a moment, a long moment.. - God the Father is Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit, all in One - One Divine Nature. So I am wrestling with the concepts of why did God abandon His Son, [i.e. Himself], and where was the Holy Spirit [again, Himself]. More to come I suppose...